Plurk paste

Guin
Man it's interesting on rereading System Collapse
how it becomes clearer when SecUnit is triggered
and why
how its fears are all tied up with the first colony specifically, because that was the part of the settlement where it went through all that stuff
and also I bet because just the fact that it predates the corporation rim means it's unfamiliar

Nan
Yeeeeeeeeeesssss
And that's so interesting
The conversation they have about hatches

Guin
I love that

Nan
I love that it does an analysis

Guin
murderbot: he's objectively right tho
art: oh my god
Why are humans and human-adjacent beings Like This, it asks

Nan
art: really? Really? We're REALLY going to do this??

Guin
right NOW?

Nan
It's a good question art

Guin
murderbot: i can have another panic attack if you prefer :P

Nan
Answer: yeah it's distracting
I need to reread more toooo
It's so good
And yeah. The rampaging ag bots being hugely triggery and the installations and spaces...

Guin
yeeeees
playing all kinds of not nice with its existing anxieties
what's worse than being abandoned on a planet? being abandoned on a planet WITH AN ALIEN THING TRYING TO EAT YOUR BRAIN

Nan
And I think it's interesting that it finds the others putting up a brave front distressing too
Like. Partly that's the "I just want an honest and measured report ok" thing
Yeah!

Guin
yeah but it's having a hard time because it perceives them as treating it with kid gloves
and it resents that and thinks it shouldn't need it
when. Murderbot, sweetie, this is just how we treat a recently traumatized person
Murderbot: i hate it and also i'm fine >:\

Nan
I think it's interesting that it can come a little closer to naming all that stuff with Three

Guin
the stuff about Three is FASCINATING

Nan
[Because] it believes that Three isn't doing that. Not that it knows what Three IS doing but

Guin
yeah, at least Three is just being awkward across the board! because it doesn't know how to People!

Nan
Murderbot: I can respect that

Guin
Three: peopling is extremely complicated and requires more study

Nan
It's true

Guin
and the way it's kind of-- suspicious of Three in a way that says as much about its own issues as it does anything to do with Three
like it's ACTIVELY TRYING not to get attached to Three
which makes sense

Nan
I find it fascinating that it's like "I sure as hell wouldn't trust Three so far if ART weren't there"
Yeeeeah

Guin
(it's doing a bit of the thing my brother does where it's like "your experience doesn't match up with my experience, so you must be DELUSIONAL")
Murderbot it's okay that other constructs are differently fucked up from you

Nan
Yeah it's really finding Three's perspective a headtrip
Right down to Three liking educational filmstrips

Guin
(Whereas from outside it makes TOTAL SENSE that Three's life has just been shaped differently)

Nan
Yeeeeeessss

Guin
(still terrible! but a different configuration of terrible)

Nan
There are different experiences even for constructs!

Guin
it almost has an easier time identifying with *ComfortUnit* than with Three
although it doesn't especially like it

Nan
I really think it's SO interesting that we get segments from Three's logs

Guin
me tooooooooo it's SO cool

Nan
Oh yeah
I think it NOT liking Comfortunit makes it surer of its conclusions

Guin
I mean it makes sense in a way, because ComfortUnit has clearly been -- brutalized to much the same degree
But with Three it's like "no that's too close"
"your stuff is too much like my stuff without BEING my stuff"

Nan
Yeah yeah and also like
I think finding other secunits unsympathetic- that distance of "we don't like each other"
Has been the only way it has to handle a lot of stuff
...but Three's a cinnabun

Guin
its repeated "we aren't FRIENDS with each other", because that's something it needs to not question

Nan
Yeeeeeessss
It LIKES three but also can't like Three

Guin
Also maybe there's some stuff there about how Three is 2.0's duckling
and 2.0 is gone

Nan
That makes sense

Guin
and it feels like in some ways 2.0 was better than it is
(which, no, buddy, 2.0 just didn't have enough RAM for all your hangups)
(metaphorically speaking)

Nan
Yeah all that stuff about 2.0 would cope better // hahaha God it's true

Guin
2.0: I am not complex enough to be that neurotic and that's fine

Nan
Poor 2.0 I love it going "I get the feeling I ought to find that upsetting but most of my mechanisms for that are absent"

Guin
But yeah, at the same time I want to shake it gently and be like
YOU were more interested in figuring yourself out than anything else
why wouldn't this one be?

Nan
It is OK that your experience is unique!
Yeeeeeeeeah

Guin
Like
We could get all metaphysical about souls and shit but Murderbot is that tumblr quote
"all of that suffering, it just made [it] kind"

Nan
Yeeeeeeah

Guin
and that's not programming, that's something that is Murderbot
However it wants to define it

Nan
I love it giving the other secunits their keys

Guin
it's a *decent person*
and Three is a decent person
and it seems clear that that other unit is also a decent person
because basically its first free choice ever is "these people I was pursuing don't deserve to be pursued, I will instead help them escape"

Nan
All I couldn't NOT even though I knew it might not be advantageous
Yeeeeeessss

Guin
and you can't tell me it had a lot of time to consider that one, Murderbot my pal

Nan
Nooooot so much

Guin
its first impulse was -- it's hard to say exactly, but toward something other than harm or pure self-interest

Nan
Yeah

Guin
if only to spite B-E

Nan
Which you know. Fair.

Guin
eminently!
(I think it's fairly clear that Murderbot's first impulse was curiosity)

Nan
Yeeeeeeeessss
Whereas Three was all "I am participating!"

Guin
YEAH Three is so interesting that way
it's like-- it might be altruism? it might be the trauma of losing the other two and trying to replace that sense of belonging?

Nan
It really is. // yeah 2.0's packet is big on belonging

Guin
it's hard to pinpoint but we know from its narration that it wants to help the people who helped it

Nan
It also like - was physically trapped
And now it is Doing Stuff
There's a reclamation of agency

Guin
which of course 2.0 understood! it Knows That Feel Sib
That sense of intense frustration in ASR, when it's like "this is so DUMB, I could do this RIGHT but that would tip them off"
"WHY DOESN'T ANYONE EVER LISTEN TO ME"

Nan
Yeeeeeeesssss

Guin
so of course Three is like THANK FUCK
I CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING about this total shitshow!

Nan
I'M PARTICIPATING
Yes

Guin
God I love Three

Nan
Me too

Guin
huh. It just occurred to me that Murderbot thinks to itself that the unnamed unit must not be the same genetic batch as it is, because the voice is different
it hasn't actually said anything like that about Three, which might mean nothing, but

Nan
Huuuuh that is interesting

Guin
to be fair it was SUPER DISTRACTED when it met Three
both times

Nan
Art sent me
Yeah
It had a LOT going on

Guin
and in some ways their thought processes are similar
The way that Three is like "no this is a problem I can solve, you should let me handle this"

Nan
It makes you wonder how big genetic batches are
And how similar

Guin
Three: my plan is smarter, you see
ART: .......okay yeah

Nan
ART: very well but I get to codename it

Guin
Three: sure sure
GOSH
and just
Three AWKWARDLY BUT GAMELY trying to communicate

Nan
Yeeeeeessss

Guin
it has NO PROTOCOLS for ANYTHING

Nan
Staring at the armor!

Guin
The bit with -- yes

Nan
It's trying so hard

Guin
Murderbot: ....where are you going with this

Nan
Three: .../stares more pointedly????

Guin
Murderbot: .... guys help
but yeah, Three is TRYING SO HARD to participate and to help

Nan
Adventures in communication!
Yeah
It's really pro social

Guin
being around Murderbot is probably really weird for it, tbh
because not only is Murderbot's experience very different, but it's used to having one and two
who presumably understood it much more intuitively

Nan
Yeeeeeessss
Being experienced with each other
Also the whole 2.0 thing
That's weird

Guin
and, again, I think it's probably had an even narrower view of the world than Murderbot did
it's KIND OF SHELTERED

Nan
Yeah that would fit with some of the narration

Guin
like. I don't think they were NICE to it.

Nan
In a totally horrible way but still

Guin
but I think it must have had more -- stability

Nan
Yeah it does seem like one and two were its regular team
It's like azi
In that it is exploited but also what it knows is so specific

Guin
yeah
it didn't necessarily ENJOY life but it pretty much knew what to expect
whereas Murderbot was repeatedly rented out basically at random
like the worst least voluntary lottery
and had to learn a lot of mental defenses

Nan
The bit about how MB is pretty sure it saw SOMEBODY'S leg get eaten

Guin
I think Three had its coping mechanisms that it had always had and now it's kind of like "???? what is happen"

Nan
Yeah that makes sense

Guin
"the world is no longer the world?"

Nan
"...I will EXPLORE"

Guin
this TOTAL UPHEAVAL that Murderbot can't really recognize
because its ENTIRE LIFE has been upheaval, basically
and only the still somewhat unclear convergence of events -- the hack and the massacre and the self-hack

Nan
And also like. Murderbot frees itself and then goes exploring on the feed. Three's exploring is all out in the open

Guin
yeah. Because Three never has that closet situation
It's not free, and then it is

Nan
Yeah
Murderbot isn't free then it still isn't free but also is then it's passing as something else...

Guin
yeah, it has kind of this gradual cascade of realizations
and Three's been hit with the whole thing at once
no wonder it needs more context

Nan
Three: to the educational film strips!